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	<title>Comments on: A Critique of the Empathizing-Systemizing (E-S) Theory of Autism</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.journeyswithautism.com/2009/07/07/a-critique-of-the-empathizing-systemizing-e-s-theory/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.journeyswithautism.com/2009/07/07/a-critique-of-the-empathizing-systemizing-e-s-theory/</link>
	<description>Ethics, Disability Rights, and Reports from Life on the Spectrum</description>
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		<title>By: Simon Baron Cohen, autism and empathy &#124; Indigo Jo Blogs</title>
		<link>http://www.journeyswithautism.com/2009/07/07/a-critique-of-the-empathizing-systemizing-e-s-theory/comment-page-1/#comment-174436</link>
		<dc:creator>Simon Baron Cohen, autism and empathy &#124; Indigo Jo Blogs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Jun 2011 17:48:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aspergerjourneys.com/?p=2943#comment-174436</guid>
		<description>[...] has been one of his most articulate critics from this camp and you can read her views here: [1], [2], [3], [4].I bought The Essential Difference in an attempt to understand the ideas behind Zero [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] has been one of his most articulate critics from this camp and you can read her views here: [1], [2], [3], [4].I bought The Essential Difference in an attempt to understand the ideas behind Zero [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Rachel Cohen-Rottenberg</title>
		<link>http://www.journeyswithautism.com/2009/07/07/a-critique-of-the-empathizing-systemizing-e-s-theory/comment-page-1/#comment-120167</link>
		<dc:creator>Rachel Cohen-Rottenberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Jan 2011 23:03:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aspergerjourneys.com/?p=2943#comment-120167</guid>
		<description>Hi Indigo Jo,

I&#039;ll never cease to be amazed at the kinds of generalizations that people come up with about gender--generalizations that they then try to present as scientific fact. That&#039;s what irks me so much about some of SBC&#039;s work. He starts with these absurd gender stereotypes and then starts using them to explain autism. I can&#039;t believe he&#039;s as well respected as he is. When I was in grad school, anyone who began applying gender stereotypes to any research subject would be laughed out of the room.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Indigo Jo,</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll never cease to be amazed at the kinds of generalizations that people come up with about gender&#8211;generalizations that they then try to present as scientific fact. That&#8217;s what irks me so much about some of SBC&#8217;s work. He starts with these absurd gender stereotypes and then starts using them to explain autism. I can&#8217;t believe he&#8217;s as well respected as he is. When I was in grad school, anyone who began applying gender stereotypes to any research subject would be laughed out of the room.</p>
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		<title>By: Indigo Jo</title>
		<link>http://www.journeyswithautism.com/2009/07/07/a-critique-of-the-empathizing-systemizing-e-s-theory/comment-page-1/#comment-120164</link>
		<dc:creator>Indigo Jo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Jan 2011 22:43:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aspergerjourneys.com/?p=2943#comment-120164</guid>
		<description>Hi Rachel,

I know this is an old post, but a lot of the nonsense branding autistic people as excessively systematising and lacking empathy is commonly thrown at men in general in a lot of pop psychological literature these days. I have one particular friend on Facebook who keeps posting this gibberish (I have heard it called neuro-trash) which at its worst portrays men as not really human, functioning like computers one minute and wild animals the next. If you tell her that books have been written which exposes the cherry-picking of the scientific evidence, she&#039;ll just laugh it off and post more. I bought Cordelia Fine&#039;s &quot;Delusions of Gender&quot; with some of the book tokens I got for Christmas to counter this rubbish.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Rachel,</p>
<p>I know this is an old post, but a lot of the nonsense branding autistic people as excessively systematising and lacking empathy is commonly thrown at men in general in a lot of pop psychological literature these days. I have one particular friend on Facebook who keeps posting this gibberish (I have heard it called neuro-trash) which at its worst portrays men as not really human, functioning like computers one minute and wild animals the next. If you tell her that books have been written which exposes the cherry-picking of the scientific evidence, she&#8217;ll just laugh it off and post more. I bought Cordelia Fine&#8217;s &#8220;Delusions of Gender&#8221; with some of the book tokens I got for Christmas to counter this rubbish.</p>
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		<title>By: Rachel</title>
		<link>http://www.journeyswithautism.com/2009/07/07/a-critique-of-the-empathizing-systemizing-e-s-theory/comment-page-1/#comment-62948</link>
		<dc:creator>Rachel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 18:48:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aspergerjourneys.com/?p=2943#comment-62948</guid>
		<description>P.S. April, I now want to write a book called &quot;Deconstructing an Idiot into Oblivion.&quot; There&#039;s definitely enough idiocy in the world to fill a couple hundred pages, and with a title like that, I think the book would sell. However, since I&#039;m working on my memoir, I&#039;ll have to file away that idea for awhile. ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>P.S. April, I now want to write a book called &#8220;Deconstructing an Idiot into Oblivion.&#8221; There&#8217;s definitely enough idiocy in the world to fill a couple hundred pages, and with a title like that, I think the book would sell. However, since I&#8217;m working on my memoir, I&#8217;ll have to file away that idea for awhile. <img src='http://www.journeyswithautism.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Rachel</title>
		<link>http://www.journeyswithautism.com/2009/07/07/a-critique-of-the-empathizing-systemizing-e-s-theory/comment-page-1/#comment-62944</link>
		<dc:creator>Rachel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 16:23:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aspergerjourneys.com/?p=2943#comment-62944</guid>
		<description>Hi everyone, and thanks for your kudos. 

And to Jason, welcome and thanks for posting. I agree with every word you wrote.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi everyone, and thanks for your kudos. </p>
<p>And to Jason, welcome and thanks for posting. I agree with every word you wrote.</p>
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		<title>By: April</title>
		<link>http://www.journeyswithautism.com/2009/07/07/a-critique-of-the-empathizing-systemizing-e-s-theory/comment-page-1/#comment-62931</link>
		<dc:creator>April</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 14:05:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aspergerjourneys.com/?p=2943#comment-62931</guid>
		<description>Brilliant! Once again you&#039;ve deconstructed an idiot into oblivion. Bet he&#039;d be rather surprised I&#039;ve got a psych degree because I wanted to HELP people afflicted with psychiatrists who were too wrapped up in their theories to actually listen to the needs of their patients.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brilliant! Once again you&#8217;ve deconstructed an idiot into oblivion. Bet he&#8217;d be rather surprised I&#8217;ve got a psych degree because I wanted to HELP people afflicted with psychiatrists who were too wrapped up in their theories to actually listen to the needs of their patients.</p>
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		<title>By: John Dale Lyons</title>
		<link>http://www.journeyswithautism.com/2009/07/07/a-critique-of-the-empathizing-systemizing-e-s-theory/comment-page-1/#comment-62926</link>
		<dc:creator>John Dale Lyons</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 12:55:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aspergerjourneys.com/?p=2943#comment-62926</guid>
		<description>Did I mention that I&#039;m horrible at math and bad at spatial relations?  But I excel verbally. Take that- S. B-C.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Did I mention that I&#8217;m horrible at math and bad at spatial relations?  But I excel verbally. Take that- S. B-C.</p>
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		<title>By: Saja</title>
		<link>http://www.journeyswithautism.com/2009/07/07/a-critique-of-the-empathizing-systemizing-e-s-theory/comment-page-1/#comment-62898</link>
		<dc:creator>Saja</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 07:05:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aspergerjourneys.com/?p=2943#comment-62898</guid>
		<description>Wow....I&#039;ll have to let my mother-in-law (tennis techniques), the folks over at Merriam-Webster (collecting words and word meanings), the well-known and highly acclaimed jury of So You Think You Can Dance  (analyzing dance techniques), and my local Feng Shui designer (insisting nothing is moved from its place in the room) know they&#039;re autistic. Along with the rest of the universe.

Another excellent post, Rachel. You write well, and your sense of humor is just the icing on the cake.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow&#8230;.I&#8217;ll have to let my mother-in-law (tennis techniques), the folks over at Merriam-Webster (collecting words and word meanings), the well-known and highly acclaimed jury of So You Think You Can Dance  (analyzing dance techniques), and my local Feng Shui designer (insisting nothing is moved from its place in the room) know they&#8217;re autistic. Along with the rest of the universe.</p>
<p>Another excellent post, Rachel. You write well, and your sense of humor is just the icing on the cake.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Gardner</title>
		<link>http://www.journeyswithautism.com/2009/07/07/a-critique-of-the-empathizing-systemizing-e-s-theory/comment-page-1/#comment-62889</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Gardner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 05:58:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aspergerjourneys.com/?p=2943#comment-62889</guid>
		<description>Sorry, for the double post:

As a side note.  I do math synesthetically as combination of colors.  I am horrid at addition and subtraction but excel at division and multiplication (color ratios seem easy for some reason).  I almost can’t do algebra at all (letters don’t trigger the colors).  Oddly, I am excellent at statistics and calculus.  I do calculus using my language center and simply read it as if it were just a second language.  Baron-Cohen is way off :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, for the double post:</p>
<p>As a side note.  I do math synesthetically as combination of colors.  I am horrid at addition and subtraction but excel at division and multiplication (color ratios seem easy for some reason).  I almost can’t do algebra at all (letters don’t trigger the colors).  Oddly, I am excellent at statistics and calculus.  I do calculus using my language center and simply read it as if it were just a second language.  Baron-Cohen is way off <img src='http://www.journeyswithautism.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Jason Gardner</title>
		<link>http://www.journeyswithautism.com/2009/07/07/a-critique-of-the-empathizing-systemizing-e-s-theory/comment-page-1/#comment-62887</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Gardner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 05:49:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aspergerjourneys.com/?p=2943#comment-62887</guid>
		<description>Hello all.  I&#039;ve been reading this blog (thanks to my wife) for a while now. Figured that I might as well finally pipe up.  

No doubt that much of the research into autism and Aspergers is beneficial.  However, I postulate that the majority of the benefit favors the neurotypical and mostly excludes those of us most directly affected.  

Much of the hypotheses put forth by Simon Baron-Cohen seem to focus on development of a pathological description.  It is for this reason that I challenge even the entertainment of many of Baron-Cohen’s conclusions.  Pathology (even psychopathology) posits an assumed disease state that is abnormal in function and creates an impairment of health.  

Conventional thinking suggests that autism is the behavioral result of a neurological difference.  Assuming this is correct, the first posit of the pathological approach is satisfied.  I instead challenge the suggestion that it causes an impairment of health and thus likely is outside the realm of psychopathology.

Admittedly, I am only working from my own point of view here.  My “problems” revolve around sensory integration issues that create an anxiety condition.  It is the anxiety that is an impairment, indirectly due to my AS.  However, if care is taken in managing my environment, I fair reasonably well.  I acknowledge that this may not be true for other aspies.

Autism researchers, including Baron-Cohen, also seem to focus on the social aspects of autism disorders.  This is paradoxical to me as I believe that the social differences are caused by the condition and are not the condition itself.  Focusing on pathologically describing it is thus similar to giving someone with pneumonia a cough suppressant.  It simply focuses on what disturbs society, not what bothers the person afflicted.  

Even this analogy is lacking it seems, since it still assumes a disease state. Maybe it is more analogous to bleaching the skin of a dark skinned individual in order make them “fit in better.”  Their increased integration alleviates the disease state.

I currently believe that public awareness is the best route to increased social understanding.  There is likely a social benefit to public understand of our differences in behavior.  I don’t mind my differences as much as I mind the embarrassment of trying to explain to a waitress why I don’t want to sit next to the table with the screaming children and the big plastic bin where they dump dishes.  I suffer more from the funny looks when I say something like, “I have trouble with sounds.”  Most of my problems seem have to do with society’s lack of empathy for me more so than my lack of empathy for others.  If the major concern of the neurotypical is the social behavioral differences, then the problem should be addressed socially, not pathologically.

All that said, I am a scientist (biochemist) myself and deeply support continued research in autism.  It is greatly needed.  However, I would like to see more aspie contribution in the direction of the research.  Some internal insight might help get these Baron-Cohen types spending their effort on something more useful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello all.  I&#8217;ve been reading this blog (thanks to my wife) for a while now. Figured that I might as well finally pipe up.  </p>
<p>No doubt that much of the research into autism and Aspergers is beneficial.  However, I postulate that the majority of the benefit favors the neurotypical and mostly excludes those of us most directly affected.  </p>
<p>Much of the hypotheses put forth by Simon Baron-Cohen seem to focus on development of a pathological description.  It is for this reason that I challenge even the entertainment of many of Baron-Cohen’s conclusions.  Pathology (even psychopathology) posits an assumed disease state that is abnormal in function and creates an impairment of health.  </p>
<p>Conventional thinking suggests that autism is the behavioral result of a neurological difference.  Assuming this is correct, the first posit of the pathological approach is satisfied.  I instead challenge the suggestion that it causes an impairment of health and thus likely is outside the realm of psychopathology.</p>
<p>Admittedly, I am only working from my own point of view here.  My “problems” revolve around sensory integration issues that create an anxiety condition.  It is the anxiety that is an impairment, indirectly due to my AS.  However, if care is taken in managing my environment, I fair reasonably well.  I acknowledge that this may not be true for other aspies.</p>
<p>Autism researchers, including Baron-Cohen, also seem to focus on the social aspects of autism disorders.  This is paradoxical to me as I believe that the social differences are caused by the condition and are not the condition itself.  Focusing on pathologically describing it is thus similar to giving someone with pneumonia a cough suppressant.  It simply focuses on what disturbs society, not what bothers the person afflicted.  </p>
<p>Even this analogy is lacking it seems, since it still assumes a disease state. Maybe it is more analogous to bleaching the skin of a dark skinned individual in order make them “fit in better.”  Their increased integration alleviates the disease state.</p>
<p>I currently believe that public awareness is the best route to increased social understanding.  There is likely a social benefit to public understand of our differences in behavior.  I don’t mind my differences as much as I mind the embarrassment of trying to explain to a waitress why I don’t want to sit next to the table with the screaming children and the big plastic bin where they dump dishes.  I suffer more from the funny looks when I say something like, “I have trouble with sounds.”  Most of my problems seem have to do with society’s lack of empathy for me more so than my lack of empathy for others.  If the major concern of the neurotypical is the social behavioral differences, then the problem should be addressed socially, not pathologically.</p>
<p>All that said, I am a scientist (biochemist) myself and deeply support continued research in autism.  It is greatly needed.  However, I would like to see more aspie contribution in the direction of the research.  Some internal insight might help get these Baron-Cohen types spending their effort on something more useful.</p>
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