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	<title>Comments on: The Education of Kids on the Spectrum</title>
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	<description>Ethics, Disability Rights, and Reports from Life on the Spectrum</description>
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		<title>By: Taylor Selseth</title>
		<link>http://www.journeyswithautism.com/2009/07/20/the-education-of-kids-on-the-spectrum/comment-page-1/#comment-68977</link>
		<dc:creator>Taylor Selseth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 04:50:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aspergerjourneys.com/?p=3141#comment-68977</guid>
		<description>I am constantly torn between the competing desire to fit in and to relate to others and on the other hand to be myself and not overwhelm myself to meltdown. I will do something with friends, and then regretting it later and hating myself because its something I really like to do, it&#039;s just that my brain can&#039;t handle it.

Ah, the joys of being an Aspie of the INFJ personality type...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am constantly torn between the competing desire to fit in and to relate to others and on the other hand to be myself and not overwhelm myself to meltdown. I will do something with friends, and then regretting it later and hating myself because its something I really like to do, it&#8217;s just that my brain can&#8217;t handle it.</p>
<p>Ah, the joys of being an Aspie of the INFJ personality type&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://www.journeyswithautism.com/2009/07/20/the-education-of-kids-on-the-spectrum/comment-page-1/#comment-63554</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jul 2009 00:56:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aspergerjourneys.com/?p=3141#comment-63554</guid>
		<description>Bob has made a point that i have been cogitating on myself for some time: can people with AS have a cohesive community? should we? the problem with being in a ghetto, mental, emotional or physical, is that eventually we have to deal with the rest of the world. how good can we be at this if we never need to deal with it?
there are times when i&#039;m glad i have the skills i have to deal with regular people, and think if i were in a room of people who were too much like me, i would go crazy :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bob has made a point that i have been cogitating on myself for some time: can people with AS have a cohesive community? should we? the problem with being in a ghetto, mental, emotional or physical, is that eventually we have to deal with the rest of the world. how good can we be at this if we never need to deal with it?<br />
there are times when i&#8217;m glad i have the skills i have to deal with regular people, and think if i were in a room of people who were too much like me, i would go crazy <img src='http://www.journeyswithautism.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Jennifer</title>
		<link>http://www.journeyswithautism.com/2009/07/20/the-education-of-kids-on-the-spectrum/comment-page-1/#comment-63543</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jul 2009 22:28:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aspergerjourneys.com/?p=3141#comment-63543</guid>
		<description>When I read about you Rachel, you are an example of someone who is an academic success, and a social success in the sense that you have formed strong and intimate relationships with others (especially your husband and daughter.)   I have read a lot about Asperger people being less able to connect with others emotionally enough to satisfy other&#039;s needs.  

My daughters struggle with school.  One has discalculia, daydreams, and works slowly- not completing her work.  The other is &quot;young&quot; for her age, so will be skipping one year so that she can play longer before she has the pressure to learn to read.

It would be great to have academically gifted children.  I wonder, if I had been less accepting, would they have been academically better?  Would they be forced to have a different brain-wiring?  They are intelligent, but at this moment are unable to demonstrate it in  a conventional way. I have loads of questions like these, but only time will tell.

Both children seem happy, but I do wonder whether they really are, and to what degree.One of them has frequent headaches, for example.
I don&#039;t have a strict routine.  One morning I can dress them first, and then we eat breakfast.  The next day it could easily be the other way around.
  Should I be accommodating a rigid need for structure (if there is one), or is it good that they experience variation?  It&#039;s not easy to know what is best for them.
  .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I read about you Rachel, you are an example of someone who is an academic success, and a social success in the sense that you have formed strong and intimate relationships with others (especially your husband and daughter.)   I have read a lot about Asperger people being less able to connect with others emotionally enough to satisfy other&#8217;s needs.  </p>
<p>My daughters struggle with school.  One has discalculia, daydreams, and works slowly- not completing her work.  The other is &#8220;young&#8221; for her age, so will be skipping one year so that she can play longer before she has the pressure to learn to read.</p>
<p>It would be great to have academically gifted children.  I wonder, if I had been less accepting, would they have been academically better?  Would they be forced to have a different brain-wiring?  They are intelligent, but at this moment are unable to demonstrate it in  a conventional way. I have loads of questions like these, but only time will tell.</p>
<p>Both children seem happy, but I do wonder whether they really are, and to what degree.One of them has frequent headaches, for example.<br />
I don&#8217;t have a strict routine.  One morning I can dress them first, and then we eat breakfast.  The next day it could easily be the other way around.<br />
  Should I be accommodating a rigid need for structure (if there is one), or is it good that they experience variation?  It&#8217;s not easy to know what is best for them.<br />
  .</p>
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		<title>By: Saja</title>
		<link>http://www.journeyswithautism.com/2009/07/20/the-education-of-kids-on-the-spectrum/comment-page-1/#comment-63528</link>
		<dc:creator>Saja</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jul 2009 07:07:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aspergerjourneys.com/?p=3141#comment-63528</guid>
		<description>Bob! What an honor! Wow! 

(We readers of Rachel&#039;s blog pretty much worship the ground you walk on. :-) ) Seriously: it&#039;s great to hear from you directly, after hearing so much about you from Rachel. 

On young autists actualizing their gifts: part of my difficulty now is the feeling that my autistic gifts have been denied breathing room by my NT coping skills. There&#039;s been no time or space for them for forty years. Like Rachel, I do and have done NT all the time, rain or shine, necessary or not. So I certainly agree that autistic kids should, above all, be given the freedom to discover themselves, and that NT emulation should be part of a toolbox, not a way of being.

I also agree that ideally, people should be free to be themselves, wherever, whenever. But I am not that naive. Nor do I think the world will ever be a place without discrimination and fear. That seems to be an innate component of the human condition; there are always people who dislike what is not like them, and apparently fear it enough to want to destroy it. I don&#039;t understand it, but it&#039;s been around since there have been humans, and I doubt it will disappear.

Rachel&#039;s &quot;banding together&quot; example does help, of course. Applied on a societal scale, it means changing laws and educating people. Abolishing segregation. Making gay marriage legal. Long-term societal change that bands large, diverse communities--not just the gay guys in the neighborhood, but the whole neighborhood, city, state, and country--together to protect their members against those few whose gene pool or upbringing or both makes them need to harm someone different from them. This takes time, and I think it&#039;s happening for autism, as the outdated view of head-banging mutes in a corner is replaced by the rich variety of the spectrum, and people like Amanda Baggs show the world that even the least NT-like autistics ARE &quot;in there&quot; and communicative.

But for those inevitable moments when you&#039;re alone with the intolerant, a little strategic fitting in is a very fine tool to have.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bob! What an honor! Wow! </p>
<p>(We readers of Rachel&#8217;s blog pretty much worship the ground you walk on. <img src='http://www.journeyswithautism.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' />  ) Seriously: it&#8217;s great to hear from you directly, after hearing so much about you from Rachel. </p>
<p>On young autists actualizing their gifts: part of my difficulty now is the feeling that my autistic gifts have been denied breathing room by my NT coping skills. There&#8217;s been no time or space for them for forty years. Like Rachel, I do and have done NT all the time, rain or shine, necessary or not. So I certainly agree that autistic kids should, above all, be given the freedom to discover themselves, and that NT emulation should be part of a toolbox, not a way of being.</p>
<p>I also agree that ideally, people should be free to be themselves, wherever, whenever. But I am not that naive. Nor do I think the world will ever be a place without discrimination and fear. That seems to be an innate component of the human condition; there are always people who dislike what is not like them, and apparently fear it enough to want to destroy it. I don&#8217;t understand it, but it&#8217;s been around since there have been humans, and I doubt it will disappear.</p>
<p>Rachel&#8217;s &#8220;banding together&#8221; example does help, of course. Applied on a societal scale, it means changing laws and educating people. Abolishing segregation. Making gay marriage legal. Long-term societal change that bands large, diverse communities&#8211;not just the gay guys in the neighborhood, but the whole neighborhood, city, state, and country&#8211;together to protect their members against those few whose gene pool or upbringing or both makes them need to harm someone different from them. This takes time, and I think it&#8217;s happening for autism, as the outdated view of head-banging mutes in a corner is replaced by the rich variety of the spectrum, and people like Amanda Baggs show the world that even the least NT-like autistics ARE &#8220;in there&#8221; and communicative.</p>
<p>But for those inevitable moments when you&#8217;re alone with the intolerant, a little strategic fitting in is a very fine tool to have.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob</title>
		<link>http://www.journeyswithautism.com/2009/07/20/the-education-of-kids-on-the-spectrum/comment-page-1/#comment-63524</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jul 2009 03:03:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aspergerjourneys.com/?p=3141#comment-63524</guid>
		<description>It seems that one of the main issues here is what does it take for an AS person to be able to interact in a positive way with the NT world. The parallels to gays can go only so far -- as do parallels to any &quot;other&quot; group, such as a religious community. In these cases, people have each other as support -- Rachel&#039;s Castro experiences are a great example of the power of a supportive community.

But is it possible -- or advantageous -- for spectrum folks to create their own community? I suppose that could work but, as with any homogeneous community, it also creates its own problems. Comments on this blog seem to indicate that the &quot;conscious coupling&quot; of spectrum and NT can work when it is allowed to. Rachel and I struggle with this all the time: finding the balance that allows each of us to hear and support the other. And I know it isn&#039;t easy for us, and the blog comments give me a glimpse into some of your lives too. I&#039;m noticing that, as much as I can accept our reality,  I&#039;m still in the &quot;bargaining&quot; mindset -- still thinking or hoping that this isn&#039;t really happening or that somehow it isn&#039;t as difficult as it seems. I know I&#039;m trying to move myself into the &quot;accepting&quot; mindset, one that will allow me -- and us -- to face our reality as a couple and take the steps that will allow both of us to continue growing and supporting each other. Just knowing that there are other people like me out there struggling with these same issues certainly helps me!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems that one of the main issues here is what does it take for an AS person to be able to interact in a positive way with the NT world. The parallels to gays can go only so far &#8212; as do parallels to any &#8220;other&#8221; group, such as a religious community. In these cases, people have each other as support &#8212; Rachel&#8217;s Castro experiences are a great example of the power of a supportive community.</p>
<p>But is it possible &#8212; or advantageous &#8212; for spectrum folks to create their own community? I suppose that could work but, as with any homogeneous community, it also creates its own problems. Comments on this blog seem to indicate that the &#8220;conscious coupling&#8221; of spectrum and NT can work when it is allowed to. Rachel and I struggle with this all the time: finding the balance that allows each of us to hear and support the other. And I know it isn&#8217;t easy for us, and the blog comments give me a glimpse into some of your lives too. I&#8217;m noticing that, as much as I can accept our reality,  I&#8217;m still in the &#8220;bargaining&#8221; mindset &#8212; still thinking or hoping that this isn&#8217;t really happening or that somehow it isn&#8217;t as difficult as it seems. I know I&#8217;m trying to move myself into the &#8220;accepting&#8221; mindset, one that will allow me &#8212; and us &#8212; to face our reality as a couple and take the steps that will allow both of us to continue growing and supporting each other. Just knowing that there are other people like me out there struggling with these same issues certainly helps me!</p>
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		<title>By: April</title>
		<link>http://www.journeyswithautism.com/2009/07/20/the-education-of-kids-on-the-spectrum/comment-page-1/#comment-63522</link>
		<dc:creator>April</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 23:58:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aspergerjourneys.com/?p=3141#comment-63522</guid>
		<description>Another well thought post, Rachel! Whenever my SIL mentions her young son&#039;s strange autie habits I try to interpret why I might have done the same thing and I think it helps. Thankfully she&#039;s a mom who is happy for her kids to be happy in their own ways and only pushes him in tiny increments.

I do wonder about a school that is for autistic people that isn&#039;t able to accommodate an autistic person as a volunteer. Learning to articulate needs is important for every person but especially for us as it seems ours are not easily guessed at by others. NT or not. Looking at things online I find so much well-intentioned autism awareness stuff insulting because it defines us as somehow broken, damaged, or incomplete. Makes me want to produce a line of tees for &quot;NT Awareness.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another well thought post, Rachel! Whenever my SIL mentions her young son&#8217;s strange autie habits I try to interpret why I might have done the same thing and I think it helps. Thankfully she&#8217;s a mom who is happy for her kids to be happy in their own ways and only pushes him in tiny increments.</p>
<p>I do wonder about a school that is for autistic people that isn&#8217;t able to accommodate an autistic person as a volunteer. Learning to articulate needs is important for every person but especially for us as it seems ours are not easily guessed at by others. NT or not. Looking at things online I find so much well-intentioned autism awareness stuff insulting because it defines us as somehow broken, damaged, or incomplete. Makes me want to produce a line of tees for &#8220;NT Awareness.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Chuck</title>
		<link>http://www.journeyswithautism.com/2009/07/20/the-education-of-kids-on-the-spectrum/comment-page-1/#comment-63521</link>
		<dc:creator>Chuck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 23:47:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aspergerjourneys.com/?p=3141#comment-63521</guid>
		<description>I can tell you that now in my middle 50&#039;s, I&#039;m much less able to maintain any high energy activities like socializing than I did in my 20&#039;s. And things were not that great then. It was very common for me to come home after a work week and needing the whole weekend alone just to recover so I could do it again the next week. I never understood where people got the energy from to go out and party on Friday and Saturday nights. Now I understand that I was putting out 2 or 3 times the energy of everyone else just to be around people all week. If I had to hold down a full time job today it would probably kill me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can tell you that now in my middle 50&#8242;s, I&#8217;m much less able to maintain any high energy activities like socializing than I did in my 20&#8242;s. And things were not that great then. It was very common for me to come home after a work week and needing the whole weekend alone just to recover so I could do it again the next week. I never understood where people got the energy from to go out and party on Friday and Saturday nights. Now I understand that I was putting out 2 or 3 times the energy of everyone else just to be around people all week. If I had to hold down a full time job today it would probably kill me.</p>
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		<title>By: DonkeyBuster</title>
		<link>http://www.journeyswithautism.com/2009/07/20/the-education-of-kids-on-the-spectrum/comment-page-1/#comment-63517</link>
		<dc:creator>DonkeyBuster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 21:54:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aspergerjourneys.com/?p=3141#comment-63517</guid>
		<description>Interesting article, though I&#039;d have to study a bit more (like a lot more) neurobiology to properly assess the validity of its model, etc. It doesn&#039;t address my question of rewiring the brain through appropriate targeted therapies, however. The authors posit possibilities similar to those I put forth in their conclusion...

&quot; In terms of behavioral treatments, the hyper-plasticity offers an immense scope for rehabilitation therapies that are based on excessive positive reward and comforting approaches and that avoid direct punishment, which may lead to a lockdown of behavioral routines. It may well turn out that successful treatments could expose truly capable and highly gifted individuals.&quot;

To whit... that the young brain is malleable and therefore it is hopeful that more autists will be able to actualize their gifts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting article, though I&#8217;d have to study a bit more (like a lot more) neurobiology to properly assess the validity of its model, etc. It doesn&#8217;t address my question of rewiring the brain through appropriate targeted therapies, however. The authors posit possibilities similar to those I put forth in their conclusion&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8221; In terms of behavioral treatments, the hyper-plasticity offers an immense scope for rehabilitation therapies that are based on excessive positive reward and comforting approaches and that avoid direct punishment, which may lead to a lockdown of behavioral routines. It may well turn out that successful treatments could expose truly capable and highly gifted individuals.&#8221;</p>
<p>To whit&#8230; that the young brain is malleable and therefore it is hopeful that more autists will be able to actualize their gifts.</p>
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		<title>By: Rachel</title>
		<link>http://www.journeyswithautism.com/2009/07/20/the-education-of-kids-on-the-spectrum/comment-page-1/#comment-63512</link>
		<dc:creator>Rachel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 19:20:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aspergerjourneys.com/?p=3141#comment-63512</guid>
		<description>Great points, DB. 

There&#039;s an article that deals, in part, with the (theoretical) hyper-plasticity of the autistic brain. You can find the article at:

http://frontiersin.org/neuroscience/paper/10.3389/neuro.01/1.1.006.2007/html/

I wrote a June post on the article, which you can find at:

http://www.aspergerjourneys.com/?s=intense+world+syndrome</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great points, DB. </p>
<p>There&#8217;s an article that deals, in part, with the (theoretical) hyper-plasticity of the autistic brain. You can find the article at:</p>
<p><a href="http://frontiersin.org/neuroscience/paper/10.3389/neuro.01/1.1.006.2007/html/" rel="nofollow">http://frontiersin.org/neuroscience/paper/10.3389/neuro.01/1.1.006.2007/html/</a></p>
<p>I wrote a June post on the article, which you can find at:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.aspergerjourneys.com/?s=intense+world+syndrome" rel="nofollow">http://www.aspergerjourneys.com/?s=intense+world+syndrome</a></p>
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		<title>By: DonkeyBuster</title>
		<link>http://www.journeyswithautism.com/2009/07/20/the-education-of-kids-on-the-spectrum/comment-page-1/#comment-63510</link>
		<dc:creator>DonkeyBuster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 18:22:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aspergerjourneys.com/?p=3141#comment-63510</guid>
		<description>A slightly different take... or angle... or something. 

By utilizing the different strategies and integration techniques at young ages, wiring changes are being made. The brain&#039;s neuroplasiticity is much greater in a young brain, so by taking advantage of sensory integration techniques (for example) it&#039;s possible that the brain is being permanently wired to properly integrate better, therefore the overload problems will be decreased. 

I think there are definitely some advantages to taking advantage of neuroplasticity. There&#039;s certainly good solid evidence that vipassana style meditation grows the frontal lobes, even into middle age. This is important in emotional regulation... 

There is of course a limit to how far it can go, but I would think that if early training could result in better executive function and reduce the sensory integration difficulties, then more autists would be able to apply their unique talents and traits in an effective manner.

However, I have not seen anything that indicates growing or developing mirror neurons or neuronal pathways necessary to automatically read/translate body language is possible, so the social aspect would still be on a cognitive level. With the possible decreased stress due to better sensory integration and more effective executive function, it may be that socially functional skills will be maintained for longer.

I think an article about neuroplasticity and the autistic brain would be fascinating....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A slightly different take&#8230; or angle&#8230; or something. </p>
<p>By utilizing the different strategies and integration techniques at young ages, wiring changes are being made. The brain&#8217;s neuroplasiticity is much greater in a young brain, so by taking advantage of sensory integration techniques (for example) it&#8217;s possible that the brain is being permanently wired to properly integrate better, therefore the overload problems will be decreased. </p>
<p>I think there are definitely some advantages to taking advantage of neuroplasticity. There&#8217;s certainly good solid evidence that vipassana style meditation grows the frontal lobes, even into middle age. This is important in emotional regulation&#8230; </p>
<p>There is of course a limit to how far it can go, but I would think that if early training could result in better executive function and reduce the sensory integration difficulties, then more autists would be able to apply their unique talents and traits in an effective manner.</p>
<p>However, I have not seen anything that indicates growing or developing mirror neurons or neuronal pathways necessary to automatically read/translate body language is possible, so the social aspect would still be on a cognitive level. With the possible decreased stress due to better sensory integration and more effective executive function, it may be that socially functional skills will be maintained for longer.</p>
<p>I think an article about neuroplasticity and the autistic brain would be fascinating&#8230;.</p>
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