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	<title>Comments on: Feeling Invisible</title>
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	<link>http://www.journeyswithautism.com/2009/08/19/feeling-invisible/</link>
	<description>Ethics, Disability Rights, and Reports from Life on the Spectrum</description>
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		<title>By: Taylor Selseth</title>
		<link>http://www.journeyswithautism.com/2009/08/19/feeling-invisible/comment-page-1/#comment-69002</link>
		<dc:creator>Taylor Selseth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 12:51:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aspergerjourneys.com/?p=3416#comment-69002</guid>
		<description>The &quot;being dropped in China&quot; analogy is brilliant.

Often I feel like an anthropologist trying to learn the ways of another culture. I&#039;ve heard that many Aspies do better when they move or visit another country because their social faux pas are excused as just not knowing the little details of local cultural norms.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The &#8220;being dropped in China&#8221; analogy is brilliant.</p>
<p>Often I feel like an anthropologist trying to learn the ways of another culture. I&#8217;ve heard that many Aspies do better when they move or visit another country because their social faux pas are excused as just not knowing the little details of local cultural norms.</p>
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		<title>By: John Dale Lyons</title>
		<link>http://www.journeyswithautism.com/2009/08/19/feeling-invisible/comment-page-1/#comment-64925</link>
		<dc:creator>John Dale Lyons</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Aug 2009 15:20:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aspergerjourneys.com/?p=3416#comment-64925</guid>
		<description>This entry truly resonates for me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This entry truly resonates for me.</p>
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		<title>By: aspieteach</title>
		<link>http://www.journeyswithautism.com/2009/08/19/feeling-invisible/comment-page-1/#comment-64761</link>
		<dc:creator>aspieteach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 15:06:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aspergerjourneys.com/?p=3416#comment-64761</guid>
		<description>I completely understand what you mean about feeling like the invisible half.  I live in a condo building full of...well, I&#039;ll just describe my neighbors as spoiled kids and leave it at that.  When they see me and my husband, I will say hi and they&#039;ll ignore me as if I never said anything.  But they&#039;ll fawn over my husband!  It makes things worse that I&#039;m a minority and he&#039;s not, so I can never tell if it&#039;s because I&#039;m an aspie or a minority.  

It hurts so much to see these people not even giving you the time of day and then being SO NICE to someone else.  You know what though?  At some point I realized that these are not people whose attention I&#039;d want in the end.  The people who are truly worth it value you for who you are and don&#039;t need to hear the word autism to start to pay attention to you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I completely understand what you mean about feeling like the invisible half.  I live in a condo building full of&#8230;well, I&#8217;ll just describe my neighbors as spoiled kids and leave it at that.  When they see me and my husband, I will say hi and they&#8217;ll ignore me as if I never said anything.  But they&#8217;ll fawn over my husband!  It makes things worse that I&#8217;m a minority and he&#8217;s not, so I can never tell if it&#8217;s because I&#8217;m an aspie or a minority.  </p>
<p>It hurts so much to see these people not even giving you the time of day and then being SO NICE to someone else.  You know what though?  At some point I realized that these are not people whose attention I&#8217;d want in the end.  The people who are truly worth it value you for who you are and don&#8217;t need to hear the word autism to start to pay attention to you.</p>
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		<title>By: Gavin Bollard</title>
		<link>http://www.journeyswithautism.com/2009/08/19/feeling-invisible/comment-page-1/#comment-64707</link>
		<dc:creator>Gavin Bollard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 02:48:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aspergerjourneys.com/?p=3416#comment-64707</guid>
		<description>Hi Rachel,

I know that it&#039;s painful being invisible and it&#039;s really, really awful when people talk behind your back.

I&#039;ve deleted the rest of this comment about six times because I really can&#039;t see a way forward. The bottom line is that people don&#039;t change.  Not ever.  Sure, they can change their outward behaviour but I don&#039;t think they change inside.

You know WHO you are and you shouldn&#039;t try to change to affect others.  Just be yourself and those who like you will like you for who you are.  As for the others... I doubt that you&#039;re missing much really.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Rachel,</p>
<p>I know that it&#8217;s painful being invisible and it&#8217;s really, really awful when people talk behind your back.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve deleted the rest of this comment about six times because I really can&#8217;t see a way forward. The bottom line is that people don&#8217;t change.  Not ever.  Sure, they can change their outward behaviour but I don&#8217;t think they change inside.</p>
<p>You know WHO you are and you shouldn&#8217;t try to change to affect others.  Just be yourself and those who like you will like you for who you are.  As for the others&#8230; I doubt that you&#8217;re missing much really.</p>
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		<title>By: Mim</title>
		<link>http://www.journeyswithautism.com/2009/08/19/feeling-invisible/comment-page-1/#comment-64705</link>
		<dc:creator>Mim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 00:45:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aspergerjourneys.com/?p=3416#comment-64705</guid>
		<description>Aside from those people who are deliberately hostile, it seems to me many, many people are anxious and uncomfortable themselves. Just because they are NT doesn&#039;t mean they are self-confident. A lot of NT&#039;s learn early in life how to adapt and conform to such a large extent,  that when they somehow pick up that you either don&#039;t quite seem &quot;the same&quot;, or maybe you are just quiet, or that you are anxious or uncomfortable, this  may threaten them to their very core. Don&#039;t overestimate their capacity of self-confidence or self-esteem or self-reflection.  Their ignoring you may speak to their own anxiety about what to &quot;do&quot; or &quot;say&quot;. 

I was thinking of how easy it would be to substitute your story with the story of a African-American. Suddenly, people get quiet. It is not because there is anything wrong with the black person. That person could be a true delight. But many people are caught up in their own fears and discomfort.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aside from those people who are deliberately hostile, it seems to me many, many people are anxious and uncomfortable themselves. Just because they are NT doesn&#8217;t mean they are self-confident. A lot of NT&#8217;s learn early in life how to adapt and conform to such a large extent,  that when they somehow pick up that you either don&#8217;t quite seem &#8220;the same&#8221;, or maybe you are just quiet, or that you are anxious or uncomfortable, this  may threaten them to their very core. Don&#8217;t overestimate their capacity of self-confidence or self-esteem or self-reflection.  Their ignoring you may speak to their own anxiety about what to &#8220;do&#8221; or &#8220;say&#8221;. </p>
<p>I was thinking of how easy it would be to substitute your story with the story of a African-American. Suddenly, people get quiet. It is not because there is anything wrong with the black person. That person could be a true delight. But many people are caught up in their own fears and discomfort.</p>
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		<title>By: April</title>
		<link>http://www.journeyswithautism.com/2009/08/19/feeling-invisible/comment-page-1/#comment-64704</link>
		<dc:creator>April</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Aug 2009 00:06:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aspergerjourneys.com/?p=3416#comment-64704</guid>
		<description>I totally feel for you, Rachael. I get the impression that when you feel strong you&#039;re a fairly extroverted and vivacious personality. Those e-mails sound like pure murder. 

&quot;Our expectation is that everyone operates within the same parameters and become anxious and confused when we see others not meeting our expectations. The solution is to alter the standards by which we ourselves operate or those of society at large. The latter being completely impractical, it is obvious that we must change our expectations. This is of course easier said than done.&quot;

Autistic or not, I&#039;d say the culture thing holds unless you&#039;re really foreign looking / sounding. Being a westerner, I found my social skills (perfectly adequate where I was raised) not just inadequate but &quot;woefully rude&quot; when visiting parts of the South. Yet, both times I lived in the UK these same behaviors were considered quaint even if a local would be looked down upon for doing the same thing.

I guess I&#039;m lucky to have found a community of rather odd people who live by their own retrograde  rules and can accept that I&#039;m just Differently Weird. ;) But even then, I get that invisible treatment all the time from folks I&#039;d reasonably call friends. Being pretty introverted I&#039;ve just learned to work it to my advantage... if Sweetie is being engaged in conversation I can more closely pay attention to the details he&#039;s sure to miss. People will reveal a whole lot about themselves when they forget you&#039;re standing there! (Beyond being a rude SOB.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I totally feel for you, Rachael. I get the impression that when you feel strong you&#8217;re a fairly extroverted and vivacious personality. Those e-mails sound like pure murder. </p>
<p>&#8220;Our expectation is that everyone operates within the same parameters and become anxious and confused when we see others not meeting our expectations. The solution is to alter the standards by which we ourselves operate or those of society at large. The latter being completely impractical, it is obvious that we must change our expectations. This is of course easier said than done.&#8221;</p>
<p>Autistic or not, I&#8217;d say the culture thing holds unless you&#8217;re really foreign looking / sounding. Being a westerner, I found my social skills (perfectly adequate where I was raised) not just inadequate but &#8220;woefully rude&#8221; when visiting parts of the South. Yet, both times I lived in the UK these same behaviors were considered quaint even if a local would be looked down upon for doing the same thing.</p>
<p>I guess I&#8217;m lucky to have found a community of rather odd people who live by their own retrograde  rules and can accept that I&#8217;m just Differently Weird. <img src='http://www.journeyswithautism.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' />  But even then, I get that invisible treatment all the time from folks I&#8217;d reasonably call friends. Being pretty introverted I&#8217;ve just learned to work it to my advantage&#8230; if Sweetie is being engaged in conversation I can more closely pay attention to the details he&#8217;s sure to miss. People will reveal a whole lot about themselves when they forget you&#8217;re standing there! (Beyond being a rude SOB.)</p>
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		<title>By: Kate</title>
		<link>http://www.journeyswithautism.com/2009/08/19/feeling-invisible/comment-page-1/#comment-64703</link>
		<dc:creator>Kate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 23:34:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aspergerjourneys.com/?p=3416#comment-64703</guid>
		<description>Agreed.... So agreed...Don&#039;t know what to do about it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agreed&#8230;. So agreed&#8230;Don&#8217;t know what to do about it.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason</title>
		<link>http://www.journeyswithautism.com/2009/08/19/feeling-invisible/comment-page-1/#comment-64697</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 21:27:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aspergerjourneys.com/?p=3416#comment-64697</guid>
		<description>I totally agree with you.  The way people respond to things has me constantly scratching my head and feeling like an alien.  I am not in any way condoning their responses. I find myself more and more simply watching from the sidelines and trying to make sense of behaviors I see.  This is the main reason for my own increasing isolation.  I simply do not like the way people go about things.  Their actions too often seem to be unjust and unthoughtful.  My only choices seem to be complete withdraw, falling into the same insincere patterns, or carving my own new reality as best that I can.

I also often speculate about the role of modern social networking.  It seems that many people favor social interaction via some form of proxy.  Facebook and MySpace are huge deals in many people&#039;s lives.  Look at the prevalence of blogs.  And I am constantly confused by the preference of text messaging over talking on the phone.  I mean, here is a person holding a phone in a conversation with another person holding a phone, but neither party is actually talking.  So many people tend to favor the inefficient half-duplex communication of texting over quick and efficient vocal communication.  Could it be that society has changed such that people only feel socially confident with some degree of separation?  Maybe society itself has gone somewhat autistic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I totally agree with you.  The way people respond to things has me constantly scratching my head and feeling like an alien.  I am not in any way condoning their responses. I find myself more and more simply watching from the sidelines and trying to make sense of behaviors I see.  This is the main reason for my own increasing isolation.  I simply do not like the way people go about things.  Their actions too often seem to be unjust and unthoughtful.  My only choices seem to be complete withdraw, falling into the same insincere patterns, or carving my own new reality as best that I can.</p>
<p>I also often speculate about the role of modern social networking.  It seems that many people favor social interaction via some form of proxy.  Facebook and MySpace are huge deals in many people&#8217;s lives.  Look at the prevalence of blogs.  And I am constantly confused by the preference of text messaging over talking on the phone.  I mean, here is a person holding a phone in a conversation with another person holding a phone, but neither party is actually talking.  So many people tend to favor the inefficient half-duplex communication of texting over quick and efficient vocal communication.  Could it be that society has changed such that people only feel socially confident with some degree of separation?  Maybe society itself has gone somewhat autistic.</p>
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		<title>By: Rachel</title>
		<link>http://www.journeyswithautism.com/2009/08/19/feeling-invisible/comment-page-1/#comment-64694</link>
		<dc:creator>Rachel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 20:56:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aspergerjourneys.com/?p=3416#comment-64694</guid>
		<description>When talking to doctors or to insurance companies, I don&#039;t mind Bob standing in as a proxy for me. In fact, I prefer it. However, in this case, the situation called for something much different. 

I have had direct conversations with everyone in Bob&#039;s immediate family, and with several people in the extended family, most of which have been quite positive. Bob requested that people acknowledge me directly, and the one person who did is someone I&#039;ve never even met, emailed, or spoken to. If anyone were going to use Bob as a proxy, I would have assumed it would be her. Instead, she defied expectations.

When the day is done, I don&#039;t think that Bob has any more insight into why it came out this way than I do. Everything he wrote in his comments above pretty much mirrors what I was thinking. 

However, you may consider my expectations adjusted.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When talking to doctors or to insurance companies, I don&#8217;t mind Bob standing in as a proxy for me. In fact, I prefer it. However, in this case, the situation called for something much different. </p>
<p>I have had direct conversations with everyone in Bob&#8217;s immediate family, and with several people in the extended family, most of which have been quite positive. Bob requested that people acknowledge me directly, and the one person who did is someone I&#8217;ve never even met, emailed, or spoken to. If anyone were going to use Bob as a proxy, I would have assumed it would be her. Instead, she defied expectations.</p>
<p>When the day is done, I don&#8217;t think that Bob has any more insight into why it came out this way than I do. Everything he wrote in his comments above pretty much mirrors what I was thinking. </p>
<p>However, you may consider my expectations adjusted.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason</title>
		<link>http://www.journeyswithautism.com/2009/08/19/feeling-invisible/comment-page-1/#comment-64692</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Aug 2009 19:13:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aspergerjourneys.com/?p=3416#comment-64692</guid>
		<description>I see this along the same lines as Ben.  I believe people tend to work thru channels that are most comfortable for them.  You no doubt utilize Bob as a proxy for many things. Others are likely to do so in turn.  Operating within your Margot Nelles quote as an analogy, think of Bob as a translator that you have on your journey in China.  It should be expected that effective communication will need to utilize his interpretive abilities as much as possible.  This of course does not resolve your feeling of being an indirect participant, but it at least is a workable model for communicative progress.  Blame my view on my stark pragmatism.

On the larger concept of invisibility, I completely share your experience.  When out in public, I often find myself wondering if I&#039;m even physically invisible.  I am so tired of being cut off or almost walked over while people carry on their rude behaviors.  

It would be too much of generalization to have an opinion about the behavior of people everywhere, so I will only relate what it is like around Atlanta here.  This is a very &quot;me&quot; oriented local culture.  The overwhelming majority of people are completely self-absorbed and regularly show no regard for others.  I often talk about parameters.  I feel that since we aspies often fail to notice social behavioral cues, that our ability to adapt is very much dependent on rigidly defined parameters.  The problem is that if the parameters by which we operate developed in a social environment that has subsequently changed, we are likely operating with the wrong set of rules.  Our expectation is that everyone operates within the same parameters and become anxious and confused when we see others not meeting our expectations.  The solution is to alter the standards by which we ourselves operate or those of society at large.  The latter being completely impractical, it is obvious that we must change our expectations.  This is of course easier said than done. Personally, there recently seems to be a disturbing trend of me having to lower my expectations of society.  

The only way that I&#039;ve ever found that insures my direct participation in nearly anything, is to literally sort of butt in.  This can be done without being necessarily rude, but a certain degree of assertiveness and self advocacy goes a long way with people.  I often find myself having to insight a certain level of defensive caution in others to get them to &quot;face me.&quot;  Not everyone reacts to this method favorably, but the ones that do, tend to be the types of people with whom I later wind up being socially comfortable, ie. friends.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see this along the same lines as Ben.  I believe people tend to work thru channels that are most comfortable for them.  You no doubt utilize Bob as a proxy for many things. Others are likely to do so in turn.  Operating within your Margot Nelles quote as an analogy, think of Bob as a translator that you have on your journey in China.  It should be expected that effective communication will need to utilize his interpretive abilities as much as possible.  This of course does not resolve your feeling of being an indirect participant, but it at least is a workable model for communicative progress.  Blame my view on my stark pragmatism.</p>
<p>On the larger concept of invisibility, I completely share your experience.  When out in public, I often find myself wondering if I&#8217;m even physically invisible.  I am so tired of being cut off or almost walked over while people carry on their rude behaviors.  </p>
<p>It would be too much of generalization to have an opinion about the behavior of people everywhere, so I will only relate what it is like around Atlanta here.  This is a very &#8220;me&#8221; oriented local culture.  The overwhelming majority of people are completely self-absorbed and regularly show no regard for others.  I often talk about parameters.  I feel that since we aspies often fail to notice social behavioral cues, that our ability to adapt is very much dependent on rigidly defined parameters.  The problem is that if the parameters by which we operate developed in a social environment that has subsequently changed, we are likely operating with the wrong set of rules.  Our expectation is that everyone operates within the same parameters and become anxious and confused when we see others not meeting our expectations.  The solution is to alter the standards by which we ourselves operate or those of society at large.  The latter being completely impractical, it is obvious that we must change our expectations.  This is of course easier said than done. Personally, there recently seems to be a disturbing trend of me having to lower my expectations of society.  </p>
<p>The only way that I&#8217;ve ever found that insures my direct participation in nearly anything, is to literally sort of butt in.  This can be done without being necessarily rude, but a certain degree of assertiveness and self advocacy goes a long way with people.  I often find myself having to insight a certain level of defensive caution in others to get them to &#8220;face me.&#8221;  Not everyone reacts to this method favorably, but the ones that do, tend to be the types of people with whom I later wind up being socially comfortable, ie. friends.</p>
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