Comments on: Cycles of Return: Staying Out of the Victim Place http://www.journeyswithautism.com/2010/01/07/cycles-of-return-staying-out-of-the-victim-place/ Reports from Life on the Spectrum Fri, 03 Sep 2010 19:04:32 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: bluedancer http://www.journeyswithautism.com/2010/01/07/cycles-of-return-staying-out-of-the-victim-place/comment-page-1/#comment-79643 bluedancer Thu, 27 May 2010 09:00:34 +0000 http://www.aspergerjourneys.com/?p=4127#comment-79643 it's courageous. :) it’s courageous. :)

]]> By: Rachel http://www.journeyswithautism.com/2010/01/07/cycles-of-return-staying-out-of-the-victim-place/comment-page-1/#comment-73514 Rachel Mon, 11 Jan 2010 03:53:16 +0000 http://www.aspergerjourneys.com/?p=4127#comment-73514 Thank you for your insights, eaucoin. It seems highly unlikely that I would be the only survivor in the family. My therapist concurs and suggested things very similar to what you've written here. Thank you for your insights, eaucoin. It seems highly unlikely that I would be the only survivor in the family. My therapist concurs and suggested things very similar to what you’ve written here.

]]> By: eaucoin http://www.journeyswithautism.com/2010/01/07/cycles-of-return-staying-out-of-the-victim-place/comment-page-1/#comment-73512 eaucoin Mon, 11 Jan 2010 03:46:04 +0000 http://www.aspergerjourneys.com/?p=4127#comment-73512 It's possible that your father learned this pattern of abusive behavior within his own family. If so, any of his siblings might want to discourage you from speaking about it as a way of denying complicity rather than as a judgment against you. As well, there may be female cousins on your father's side who have experienced similar abuse and not been able to escape as you did. If they have not acknowledged such suffering even to themselves, they would be uncomfortable with your revelations. I hope you will feel free of fear now that you have confronted them. Just remember that their response to you may be more of an indication of what still remains hidden (a Pandora's box still unopened within the rest of your father's family) rather than a rejection of you personally. It’s possible that your father learned this pattern of abusive behavior within his own family. If so, any of his siblings might want to discourage you from speaking about it as a way of denying complicity rather than as a judgment against you. As well, there may be female cousins on your father’s side who have experienced similar abuse and not been able to escape as you did. If they have not acknowledged such suffering even to themselves, they would be uncomfortable with your revelations. I hope you will feel free of fear now that you have confronted them. Just remember that their response to you may be more of an indication of what still remains hidden (a Pandora’s box still unopened within the rest of your father’s family) rather than a rejection of you personally.

]]> By: eaucoin http://www.journeyswithautism.com/2010/01/07/cycles-of-return-staying-out-of-the-victim-place/comment-page-1/#comment-73511 eaucoin Mon, 11 Jan 2010 03:32:51 +0000 http://www.aspergerjourneys.com/?p=4127#comment-73511 Rachel, There is something here that you may not have considered. It's quite possible that your father learned this abusive behavior within his immediate family and that some of his adult siblings may be trying to deny complicity by claiming surprise at his behavior. Your female cousins may be in the position of not having broken free and having been abused likewise, which would make them very uncomfortable having any contact with someone who is aware of the parts of their past with which they may not have dealt or acknowledged even to themselves. It is a healthy thing to have confronted them, as painful as their rejection is. I believe you will feel more free of fear and anxiety having broken the cycle of abuse and that their response was more an indication of what perhaps remains hidden than their lack of compassion. Rachel, There is something here that you may not have considered. It’s quite possible that your father learned this abusive behavior within his immediate family and that some of his adult siblings may be trying to deny complicity by claiming surprise at his behavior. Your female cousins may be in the position of not having broken free and having been abused likewise, which would make them very uncomfortable having any contact with someone who is aware of the parts of their past with which they may not have dealt or acknowledged even to themselves. It is a healthy thing to have confronted them, as painful as their rejection is. I believe you will feel more free of fear and anxiety having broken the cycle of abuse and that their response was more an indication of what perhaps remains hidden than their lack of compassion.

]]> By: Rachel http://www.journeyswithautism.com/2010/01/07/cycles-of-return-staying-out-of-the-victim-place/comment-page-1/#comment-73446 Rachel Sat, 09 Jan 2010 23:46:05 +0000 http://www.aspergerjourneys.com/?p=4127#comment-73446 Jennifer pretty much summed up my feelings. All I can add is the following: When someone tells me that he or she was abused, my immediate response is empathy. I do not ask for access to therapy records or wring my hands about how I just don't know the real truth. I offer comfort and a listening ear. What does that cost me? Nothing. What harm does it do? None. In fact, it gives me something. It allows me to exercise compassion. Any abuse survivor wants to be believed, especially when disclosing to family members. I would never knowingly enter into any relationship with someone who didn't believe me. Jennifer pretty much summed up my feelings. All I can add is the following:

When someone tells me that he or she was abused, my immediate response is empathy. I do not ask for access to therapy records or wring my hands about how I just don’t know the real truth. I offer comfort and a listening ear. What does that cost me? Nothing. What harm does it do? None. In fact, it gives me something. It allows me to exercise compassion.

Any abuse survivor wants to be believed, especially when disclosing to family members. I would never knowingly enter into any relationship with someone who didn’t believe me.

]]> By: Jennifer http://www.journeyswithautism.com/2010/01/07/cycles-of-return-staying-out-of-the-victim-place/comment-page-1/#comment-73431 Jennifer Sat, 09 Jan 2010 18:41:24 +0000 http://www.aspergerjourneys.com/?p=4127#comment-73431 Jennifer, I know that you didn't ask me, but I can't understand your comments. You've somehow missed the point entirely, imho. Otherwise you wouldn't have asked some really weird questions. I think that you need to approach the situation as less of an intellectual exercise and more in an empathic way. For example you wrote: "Are you asking Ralph to believe you or just be open minded to the idea that your story might be true? And if Ralph flat out told you she didn’t believe you but wanted to continue a relationship with you would you be accepting?" Rachel was quite clear. Reply ONLY if you believe me. However Ralph ignored Rachels instructions; Ralph replied in order to tell Rachel that Ralph didn't actually believe Rachel. If you use deductive logic, Rachel said that believing Rachel is necessary for a continuing relationship. Is that reasonable of Rachel? Of course. Anything else is pure crazy! Jennifer, would you want a relationship/friendship with someone who thought that that you made up serious allegations against members of your own family? It's absurd to consider that someone would welcome or ecourage contact on that basis. There would be no basis of trust, would there? How do we know that YOU are NT and able to put yourself in someone else's shoes easier than an Aspie would? Or that you are not someone who doesn't even have a husband? We internet people can only go on what we experience. It's a question of trust. That's what Rachel was merely trying to illustrate in her letter. Rachel has been a good friend to me, she's given me so much support in difficult times . In my experience she is consistently sane, respectful, insightful and balanced in her approach. That's why I never had a doubt in my mind that she told the truth. Jennifer, I know that you didn’t ask me, but I can’t understand your comments. You’ve somehow missed the point entirely, imho. Otherwise you wouldn’t have asked some really weird questions. I think that you need to approach the situation as less of an intellectual exercise and more in an empathic way.

For example you wrote: “Are you asking Ralph to believe you or just be open minded to the idea that your story might be true? And if Ralph flat out told you she didn’t believe you but wanted to continue a relationship with you would you be accepting?”

Rachel was quite clear. Reply ONLY if you believe me. However Ralph ignored Rachels instructions; Ralph replied in order to tell Rachel that Ralph didn’t actually believe Rachel.

If you use deductive logic, Rachel said that believing Rachel is necessary for a continuing relationship.

Is that reasonable of Rachel? Of course. Anything else is pure crazy!

Jennifer, would you want a relationship/friendship with someone who thought that that you made up serious allegations against members of your own family?

It’s absurd to consider that someone would welcome or ecourage contact on that basis. There would be no basis of trust, would there?

How do we know that YOU are NT and able to put yourself in someone else’s shoes easier than an Aspie would? Or that you are not someone who doesn’t even have a husband?
We internet people can only go on what we experience. It’s a question of trust. That’s what Rachel was merely trying to illustrate in her letter.
Rachel has been a good friend to me, she’s given me so much support in difficult times . In my experience she is consistently sane, respectful, insightful and balanced in her approach. That’s why I never had a doubt in my mind that she told the truth.

]]> By: Jennifer Gardner http://www.journeyswithautism.com/2010/01/07/cycles-of-return-staying-out-of-the-victim-place/comment-page-1/#comment-73388 Jennifer Gardner Fri, 08 Jan 2010 19:10:31 +0000 http://www.aspergerjourneys.com/?p=4127#comment-73388 I want to play devil's advocate for just a minute. I want to truely understand your words. I am an NT so I tend to infer and Aspie's mean what they say. I've been understanding your side all the way to the end and then I hit a stand still. Are you asking Ralph to believe you or just be open minded to the idea that your story might be true? And if Ralph flat out told you she didn't believe you but wanted to continue a relationship with you would you be accepting? I get the feeling you aren't trying to make people agree with you. I understand it as you to want people to understand your point of view and hold it in the same regard as anyone else. If it helps, my NT brain didn't want to ask you the above questions for the sake of being polite but . . I really want to know the answer. The tool to understanding an Aspie is the Aspie themself so I'm going straight to the source. =) I want to play devil’s advocate for just a minute. I want to truely understand your words. I am an NT so I tend to infer and Aspie’s mean what they say. I’ve been understanding your side all the way to the end and then I hit a stand still. Are you asking Ralph to believe you or just be open minded to the idea that your story might be true? And if Ralph flat out told you she didn’t believe you but wanted to continue a relationship with you would you be accepting?
I get the feeling you aren’t trying to make people agree with you. I understand it as you to want people to understand your point of view and hold it in the same regard as anyone else. If it helps, my NT brain didn’t want to ask you the above questions for the sake of being polite but . . I really want to know the answer. The tool to understanding an Aspie is the Aspie themself so I’m going straight to the source. =)

]]> By: Johanna http://www.journeyswithautism.com/2010/01/07/cycles-of-return-staying-out-of-the-victim-place/comment-page-1/#comment-73383 Johanna Fri, 08 Jan 2010 18:20:53 +0000 http://www.aspergerjourneys.com/?p=4127#comment-73383 Rachel, that is so good to read. A real closure for you and in a beautiful, dignified manner. Yes, we all would like to have a family, sometimes this is not possible without loosing the sense of self. So better to keep your dignity and live with your lovely immediate family! Not blaming you for trying, just shows what a loving and trusting person you are. Rachel, that is so good to read. A real closure for you and in a beautiful, dignified manner. Yes, we all would like to have a family, sometimes this is not possible without loosing the sense of self. So better to keep your dignity and live with your lovely immediate family! Not blaming you for trying, just shows what a loving and trusting person you are.

]]> By: Jennifer http://www.journeyswithautism.com/2010/01/07/cycles-of-return-staying-out-of-the-victim-place/comment-page-1/#comment-73371 Jennifer Fri, 08 Jan 2010 09:59:45 +0000 http://www.aspergerjourneys.com/?p=4127#comment-73371 That was a really dignified way to end the contact. I can't imagine a better way! Well done! That was a really dignified way to end the contact. I can’t imagine a better way! Well done!

]]> By: Ben http://www.journeyswithautism.com/2010/01/07/cycles-of-return-staying-out-of-the-victim-place/comment-page-1/#comment-73362 Ben Fri, 08 Jan 2010 04:10:46 +0000 http://www.aspergerjourneys.com/?p=4127#comment-73362 well done. well done.

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