Comments on: Living in the Margins http://www.journeyswithautism.com/2010/01/31/living-in-the-margins/ Ethics, Disability Rights, and Reports from Life on the Spectrum Tue, 07 Feb 2012 01:06:57 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Rachel http://www.journeyswithautism.com/2010/01/31/living-in-the-margins/comment-page-1/#comment-74903 Rachel Sun, 07 Feb 2010 19:38:13 +0000 http://www.aspergerjourneys.com/?p=4267#comment-74903 To say that privileged people are marginalized because of their privilege simply empties the word "marginalization" of any meaning at all. This isn't an intellectual exercise; there are real consequences to marginalized people in the form of isolation, harassment, discrimination, compromised mental and physical health and safety, and so on. Unfortunately, I cannot condition myself to tolerate increasing amounts of noise. I've tried the various therapies and they haven't worked. My system is just extremely sensitive. If I didn't have to go out every day with a large, conspicuous headset on, I wouldn't. To say that privileged people are marginalized because of their privilege simply empties the word “marginalization” of any meaning at all. This isn’t an intellectual exercise; there are real consequences to marginalized people in the form of isolation, harassment, discrimination, compromised mental and physical health and safety, and so on.

Unfortunately, I cannot condition myself to tolerate increasing amounts of noise. I’ve tried the various therapies and they haven’t worked. My system is just extremely sensitive. If I didn’t have to go out every day with a large, conspicuous headset on, I wouldn’t.

]]> By: Jennifer http://www.journeyswithautism.com/2010/01/31/living-in-the-margins/comment-page-1/#comment-74775 Jennifer Thu, 04 Feb 2010 22:55:20 +0000 http://www.aspergerjourneys.com/?p=4267#comment-74775 I think that even being mainstream, in a world where so many people are marginalised, is a kind of handicap. It's a privileged handicap, but it still means that they are outsiders looking into worlds that they can't quite comprehend. For example how can I, who likes my showers hot, bathe in unheated water like many people do?. I'm not rich, but to some sections of the world population without electricity, my 'need' for heated water is a luxury they can't afford. It's so relative. It's great that there is dialogue between you as Aspie and Bob as non-Aspie. I'm all for an intercultural attitude toward one another. It means that the world is not seen as an entity designed against people with Aspergers, but just that people with Aspergers should have the means to function within it's framework. I can understand that being bothered by sound could infuriate or disorient you. I wonder whether Bob could choose moments to speak when background sound is at a minimum. Is there a way that you could gently condition yourself to hear increasing volumes of noise? (My daughter can tolerate now, what she couldn't when she was 4, so something changed along the way.) I think that even being mainstream, in a world where so many people are marginalised, is a kind of handicap. It’s a privileged handicap, but it still means that they are outsiders looking into worlds that they can’t quite comprehend. For example how can I, who likes my showers hot, bathe in unheated water like many people do?. I’m not rich, but to some sections of the world population without electricity, my ‘need’ for heated water is a luxury they can’t afford. It’s so relative.
It’s great that there is dialogue between you as Aspie and Bob as non-Aspie. I’m all for an intercultural attitude toward one another. It means that the world is not seen as an entity designed against people with Aspergers, but just that people with Aspergers should have the means to function within it’s framework. I can understand that being bothered by sound could infuriate or disorient you. I wonder whether Bob could choose moments to speak when background sound is at a minimum. Is there a way that you could gently condition yourself to hear increasing volumes of noise? (My daughter can tolerate now, what she couldn’t when she was 4, so something changed along the way.)

]]> By: Rachel http://www.journeyswithautism.com/2010/01/31/living-in-the-margins/comment-page-1/#comment-74733 Rachel Thu, 04 Feb 2010 03:19:29 +0000 http://www.aspergerjourneys.com/?p=4267#comment-74733 It's absolutely untrue that everyone is marginalized in some way. In the US, white, male, Christian, neurotypical, heterosexual, educated people are not in the margins. There are millions of them, and they wield a great deal of political, social, and economic power. Many of them have nothing but contempt for marginalized people--if they even see us at all. It's the way they've been socialized, and it has a devastating impact on people here and abroad. There is a vast difference between choosing to be in the margins (because you'd rather spend time with your family than anyone else) and ending up in the margins (because you have a neurological difference that makes you unable to tolerate sound outside your home). I don't have the choice between concentrating on my home/family and socializing with a lot of people. And that difference means everything. Bob is fine with spending time together in silence. He has no problem with how we set things up, so long as we're together and it's working for both of us. I have spent my whole life seeing neuro-typicality as the norm. Bob is willing to see things from my viewpoint, understanding that nothing is abnormal, although some things are rare. I appreciate the reciprocity. I like seeing the things he does in the outside world, and he likes seeing how things look to me. It's why we do so well together. :-) It’s absolutely untrue that everyone is marginalized in some way. In the US, white, male, Christian, neurotypical, heterosexual, educated people are not in the margins. There are millions of them, and they wield a great deal of political, social, and economic power. Many of them have nothing but contempt for marginalized people–if they even see us at all. It’s the way they’ve been socialized, and it has a devastating impact on people here and abroad.

There is a vast difference between choosing to be in the margins (because you’d rather spend time with your family than anyone else) and ending up in the margins (because you have a neurological difference that makes you unable to tolerate sound outside your home). I don’t have the choice between concentrating on my home/family and socializing with a lot of people. And that difference means everything.

Bob is fine with spending time together in silence. He has no problem with how we set things up, so long as we’re together and it’s working for both of us. I have spent my whole life seeing neuro-typicality as the norm. Bob is willing to see things from my viewpoint, understanding that nothing is abnormal, although some things are rare. I appreciate the reciprocity. I like seeing the things he does in the outside world, and he likes seeing how things look to me. It’s why we do so well together. :-)

]]> By: Jennifer http://www.journeyswithautism.com/2010/01/31/living-in-the-margins/comment-page-1/#comment-74683 Jennifer Wed, 03 Feb 2010 05:17:47 +0000 http://www.aspergerjourneys.com/?p=4267#comment-74683 I'm with Melissa on this. The majority of people could consider themselves in the margin for a lot of reasons. However, it's concentrating on differences in stead of seeing the things that unite us as people that causes problems. For years now I've lived with very little contact with former friends. My immediate family is my world and my social life outside it is non-existent. This sounds like something to pity, because there is an expectation in society that people should socialise regularly with people outside of their family in order to be happy. in my life, I just don't have the time for it, and I don't even miss it. I'm too busy for that. But if I told myself that I should have things differently, then it would make me miserable. But I choose to ignore that expectation made of me. (People talk about making more time for myself- but with three children under 10 it's less feasible,without depriving them of my time.) Before I had my children, I was quite happy being a social butterfly. I really don't enjoy relative isolation, for it's own sake. In your case Rachel, Bob seems to be saying that sometimes he does feels like talking to you, when you're out and about. He might feel unhappy if there were an expectation that he remain silent at those times. It's a tough one. The good news is that you do like being together, and that you do want to venture ouside the home together. Bob likes to talk to you, share his thoughts with you (and not with the wider world.) He accepts that you wearing the headphones is part of your listening to your inner voice telling you what you need. He has an inner voice too. There's got to be a compromise somewhere, without requiring that he makes your margin, his. I’m with Melissa on this. The majority of people could consider themselves in the margin for a lot of reasons. However, it’s concentrating on differences in stead of seeing the things that unite us as people that causes problems. For years now I’ve lived with very little contact with former friends. My immediate family is my world and my social life outside it is non-existent. This sounds like something to pity, because there is an expectation in society that people should socialise regularly with people outside of their family in order to be happy. in my life, I just don’t have the time for it, and I don’t even miss it. I’m too busy for that. But if I told myself that I should have things differently, then it would make me miserable. But I choose to ignore that expectation made of me. (People talk about making more time for myself- but with three children under 10 it’s less feasible,without depriving them of my time.)
Before I had my children, I was quite happy being a social butterfly. I really don’t enjoy relative isolation, for it’s own sake.
In your case Rachel, Bob seems to be saying that sometimes he does feels like talking to you, when you’re out and about. He might feel unhappy if there were an expectation that he remain silent at those times. It’s a tough one. The good news is that you do like being together, and that you do want to venture ouside the home together. Bob likes to talk to you, share his thoughts with you (and not with the wider world.) He accepts that you wearing the headphones is part of your listening to your inner voice telling you what you need. He has an inner voice too. There’s got to be a compromise somewhere, without requiring that he makes your margin, his.

]]> By: Ben http://www.journeyswithautism.com/2010/01/31/living-in-the-margins/comment-page-1/#comment-74624 Ben Mon, 01 Feb 2010 22:51:48 +0000 http://www.aspergerjourneys.com/?p=4267#comment-74624 i don't think that everybody is on the margins. if that were true, there'd be no margins, and i can say for sure, there definitely are. that they're determined by a kind of conscious and unconscious consensus among the same or the mediocre is a matter of opinion. i'd say there are biological/evolutionary reasons why humans do this, but do it we do. while different nowadays is usually not threatening, our monkey brains don't know that, and so, we oddities get pushed to the edges. some things seem more clear from here, and there's ALWAYS someone further out on the margins than you, but margins they be. it was easier when i was young to pretend that being marginalized was cool, edgy, and hey, i want to be here anyway! (like i had a choice) it's not cool and edgy, and no, i really don't want to be here. with age has come some perspective. i'm no longer as angry with the society that makes margins and encourages me to live there, but i'm aware of how i got here, and why. there are certain advantages to being here, but i can't fool myself into not noticing all the things i don't get to do out here on the margins. i don’t think that everybody is on the margins. if that were true, there’d be no margins, and i can say for sure, there definitely are. that they’re determined by a kind of conscious and unconscious consensus among the same or the mediocre is a matter of opinion. i’d say there are biological/evolutionary reasons why humans do this, but do it we do. while different nowadays is usually not threatening, our monkey brains don’t know that, and so, we oddities get pushed to the edges. some things seem more clear from here, and there’s ALWAYS someone further out on the margins than you, but margins they be.
it was easier when i was young to pretend that being marginalized was cool, edgy, and hey, i want to be here anyway! (like i had a choice)
it’s not cool and edgy, and no, i really don’t want to be here.
with age has come some perspective. i’m no longer as angry with the society that makes margins and encourages me to live there, but i’m aware of how i got here, and why. there are certain advantages to being here, but i can’t fool myself into not noticing all the things i don’t get to do out here on the margins.

]]> By: John Dale Lyons http://www.journeyswithautism.com/2010/01/31/living-in-the-margins/comment-page-1/#comment-74621 John Dale Lyons Mon, 01 Feb 2010 21:54:49 +0000 http://www.aspergerjourneys.com/?p=4267#comment-74621 Life on the Margins (apologies to the Eagles): He was a soft-hearted man He was brutally handsome now, and she was terminally Aspie She held his hand, and he held her in his mansion, away from the cold of the city He had a sterling reputation as a cool guy They said he was a mensch, they said she was fly They had one thing in common, they were good together She'd say, "Slow it down, we're heading for stormy weather." Life on the margins, Surely makes you lose your mind, Life on the margins, Huh Are you with me so far... Life on the Margins (apologies to the Eagles):

He was a soft-hearted man
He was brutally handsome now, and she was terminally Aspie
She held his hand, and he held her in his mansion, away from the cold of the city
He had a sterling reputation as a cool guy
They said he was a mensch, they said she was fly
They had one thing in common, they were good together
She’d say, “Slow it down, we’re heading for stormy weather.”

Life on the margins, Surely makes you lose your mind,
Life on the margins, Huh
Are you with me so far…

]]> By: Melissa http://www.journeyswithautism.com/2010/01/31/living-in-the-margins/comment-page-1/#comment-74600 Melissa Mon, 01 Feb 2010 10:14:27 +0000 http://www.aspergerjourneys.com/?p=4267#comment-74600 I'm in no way trying to dimish what you are saying. But here's the thoughts your blog stirred in me this moring. But really, aren't we all marginalized in some way? It may be because of race. It may be because of appearance, weight, social status, or disability. Isn't the struggle for acceptance one big push to be in the center, for general acceptence and equality? What's so great about the center anyway. Really it's just mediocre by definition. But yet, at some point we're all angry about it. But what does our anger do for us? Does it push us to advocate change? Or can we do that accepting our position in culture? Does advocating from a position of peace with ourselves grant us a more palatable voice for the general masses? Or does that further allow us to be ignored? People like pushing other people into the margins. It makes them feel better about themselves. If they can call someone else ugly, or stupid, or inferior, then they themselves elevate their own position. It's really an ugly cycle. But I say, look around the margins, there's really some fabulous people here. Really it's all of us, except for those unremarkable people at the top of the bell curve. Do we all really want to be C's anyway? I’m in no way trying to dimish what you are saying. But here’s the thoughts your blog stirred in me this moring.

But really, aren’t we all marginalized in some way? It may be because of race. It may be because of appearance, weight, social status, or disability. Isn’t the struggle for acceptance one big push to be in the center, for general acceptence and equality? What’s so great about the center anyway. Really it’s just mediocre by definition. But yet, at some point we’re all angry about it.

But what does our anger do for us? Does it push us to advocate change? Or can we do that accepting our position in culture? Does advocating from a position of peace with ourselves grant us a more palatable voice for the general masses? Or does that further allow us to be ignored?

People like pushing other people into the margins. It makes them feel better about themselves. If they can call someone else ugly, or stupid, or inferior, then they themselves elevate their own position. It’s really an ugly cycle.

But I say, look around the margins, there’s really some fabulous people here. Really it’s all of us, except for those unremarkable people at the top of the bell curve. Do we all really want to be C’s anyway?

]]>