Over at Life in the House that Asperger Built, there’s been a great discussion about what happens in the minds and hearts of those of us on the spectrum when people don’t mean what they say. One of the examples in the comments section is the ubiquitous line “We should hang out sometime.”
I’ll admit, I used to believe those words. After all, why would someone say they wanted to hang out and not actually mean it?
Wait….Wait….Don’t tell me….I know this one…..Just give me a moment to think and….
Oh, right! It’s a social formality. A mere pleasantry. A little bit of chit-chat to wile away the precious hours of one’s life. A curious way that neurotypical people say, “I hereby acknowledge that you have not completely alienated me or freaked me out.” That’s all. And yet, I used to think that people actually meant that we should hang out! Then, one day, I looked at my research and realized that the data did not bear out this conclusion.
I won’t lie. (For those of you not in the know, that’s a sign that I have a disorder. More on that later.) When I realized that I couldn’t take people at their word, it pissed me off, but I knew that the only thing to do was to accept the data and proceed appropriately. I didn’t much like the idea of giving in and not believing what people actually said, and yet, I understood that follow-through means everything, and that my life would be much happier if, when people said, “We should hang out sometime,” I just heard “Blah blah blah blah blah.” After all, they might just as well have said, “Blah blah blah blah blah” for all the good it was doing my poor heart and mind, right? Right. So now, I just hear “Blah blah blah blah blah,” and my life is, in fact, much happier. I don’t complain in tones of high self-righteousness to my husband. I don’t get angry. I don’t get disappointed. In fact, I feel myself just a tad closer to being a full-fledged member of American society.
Now, there are some very good things about American society, don’t get me wrong, especially if you are privileged enough to partake of them. And then, there are some really, really fucked up dysfunctional things about American society, too, as most people in America will tell anyone who will listen. The problem is that so few people agree with me on the dysfunctionality of saying words you don’t mean that my unhappiness with the phenomenon has become evidence of a neurological disorder.
I’m reminded of an incident that happened a few years back around my daughter’s birthday. She had invited four friends to go to the movies, then out to dinner, and then back to our house for a sleepover party. All four kids had said they were coming, and we got the house set up for our visitors. When the day of her party came, two of the kids didn’t show up at all, and no one called to let us know they weren’t coming. My daughter had been in school for about a year at this point, and she was completely nonplussed about the whole thing, saying, “Yeah, mom, it happens all the time.” I was very upset, though, and Bob thought it was pretty rude.
So, later that night, I emailed the mother of one of the kids and asked what had happened. Well, it turns out that the family was very busy, you understand, with relatives coming in from out of town, and their daughter had to babysit, and well, they were so terribly, terribly busy that they just plain forgot about my daughter’s birthday party, but they’d be ever so happy to reimburse any expenses I’d incurred on behalf of their child. I told them that I didn’t want their money, and that I was hoping for them to take some actual, um, responsibility. The response? “Apparently, we’ve really disappointed you.” No shit, Sherlock.
A few days later, I spoke about the incident with my counselor, a neurotypical woman who completely agreed with every word I said. She had come to America from Portugal as a child, and she knew right away that something was very much awry with the society she had entered. She said that in the culture she came from, your word was your bond, and people had a sense of honor. If you said you were going to do something, you did it. Your reputation, your honor, and your sense of ethics all demanded it.
So there. I have it straight from the mouth of a neurotypical woman that this whole thing is a question of social and ethical norms (or the lack thereof), not a question of neurology, literal thinking, failure to read nonverbals, or any other goddamned thing that other people want to lay on us to excuse their own behavior.
And so, dear readers, if we ever meet up, and I say, “We should hang out sometime,” rest assured that I mean it. It may not happen right away. It may not mean that we’ll actually want to hang out a second or a third or a fourth time. It means that we should hang out sometime. I say what I mean and I mean what I say. If you are willing to meet me halfway, we will hang out. Word of honor.
© 2010 by Rachel Cohen-Rottenberg
You mean I wasn’t supposed to take that literally???
I’m usually really guarded about using phrases like that because it represents a commitment which I need to make. If I can’t make it then I’ll experience all kinds of guilt. I tend only to use direct statements like that if I think that I can really keep my promise.
Of course, I usually don’t hold people to the same standards as myself. When someone doesn’t turn up for a party, I just accept it as something that people with lower standards do. It’s not their fault. It would be the same as me getting irritated with people who don’t put my books back in their proper alphabetic order at home.
This reminds me of something that happened when I was living in California. One of the mums in my son’s class was sick and I offered help to her husband (things like cooking a meal or running some errands for him etc). His response amazed me. “Careful or I might just take you up on that” I told him please do I wouldn’t have offered if I wasn’t willing to help. He seemed taken back by the fact that I wasn’t just being polite and that I genuinely wanted to help.
I am “neuro-typical” and if I offer help or ask someone to come over or tell them they can call at anytime day or night I mean what I say. It is total BS not to mean what you say, in my mind it is akin to lying. Maybe growing up with my brother who has AS and now with my son who also has it has shaped my thinking, but I think it is just commonsense and politeness to say what you mean and mean what you say.
You know, I don’t know that this is necessarily an NT/ASD or even an American thing. I was raised with the “your word is your bond” mentality and my parents are NT. I get that we’re not supposed to take the “let’s do lunch” part literally. It’s not cool, but I get it. But someone just NOT showing up. That’s just RUDE. Everyday of the week and twice on Sunday, and I don’t think I think that just because I’m an Aspie. My boss is NT (I think) and he HATES it when people say they’re going to be somewhere and then don’t call and don’t show. Things happen, I get that, but you CALL..and apologize for not being able to live up to your word. That’s just common decency.
Most interesting to read your perspective
I agree with Laura. Those people were flat out rude and inconsiderate. Btw, if I tell someone I would like to hang out sometime, I generally mean it. “Nice talking to you” or “It was great seeing you” are better ways to end a conversation if you have no intention of hanging out in the future. Thats just me.
Being diagnosed late in life, my observation has been that the increase in Aspergers diagnosis is largely due to the overall lowering of social standards. It used to be that good social skills were to say please and thank you, sir and ma’am, use the right fork . . . in short good manners. With the tolerance, acceptance and even respect for the crude, rude and formerly unacceptable, the AS traits stand out more.
As far as social commitments, I know I take them more seriously, because I have to take some quiet time alone to plan and prepare for and mentally rehearse any activity that is going to modify my schedule.
A short story: Two aspies have been trying to make plans for ages. Both sincerely want to get together, but neither has the executive functioning to make it. At least.. I think that’s what happened. The End. : )
Found the previous poster’s comment about 2 Aspies & executive functioning cleverly succinct.
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Plain language not being deemed workable leads to an undesirable linguistic arms race, where one has to escalate in emphasizing “no, I really mean this” to distinguish one’s message from the obligatory but inauthentic mouth-sounds people make but which they do not mean.
Imagine, it used to be that “I’d like to hang out with you” was enough-now that statement is too vague or doesn’t contain actual intentionality, so one has to start adding more & more modifiers (“I’m serious, I really really really plan to hang out with you”) just to indicate genuineness.
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I wonder why communication has reached this problematic point, though. People are either not in touch with themselves, so they make accidental misstatements-or they don’t seem to care enough to correct their inaccurate disclosures/offers.
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I consider it the height of inconsideration & thoughtlessness for someone to arrange a shared activity & then just not show up-without making contact to provide updated info. if that means a delay or cancellation. My time is as valuable as anyone else’s, and getting my hopes up (esp. if it was based on other person extending invitation to me-it’s not like I put person on spot & pressured them into paying attention to me) then dashing them in this thoughtless manner is a surefire way to get me to sour on someone.
I rehearse & practice for future events-and structure my day/week/month around what info. I have, and if I have bad data but don’t know it, it sets me up for a guaranteed letdown (whether or not I was even looking forward to something-the mere fact of a change in plan, esp. at last minute, leaves me grouchy & confused).
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I take seriously what I say to people, as I value reliability so highly. I endeavor to “underpromise & overdeliver”, to quote a friend of mine. I don’t agree to a future action unless I’m quite sure I’m both willing & able to follow through on my words. Makes it tough to make plans with people, but at least I don’t make a bunch of dangling obligations that I fail to show up for.
Belfast, I do exactly what you and others have mentioned: “I don’t agree to a future action unless I’m quite sure I’m both willing and able to follow through on my words.” I think it’s courteous to err on the side of caution. It’s wonderful to be among others who think so, too!
In addition to having difficulties with people who say things they don’t mean, I have a hard time with people who change plans at the last minute.
Here’s an example (one I’m still “processing”):
A couple from my church offered to give me a ride to our church’s nameday. I accepted and thanked them. We arranged what time they would show up at my house. (For perspective, for those not familiar with Eastern Orthodoxy, the most important day in the life of an Orthodox parish is Pasca (Easter). The second most important day in the whole year is the parish’s nameday. It is like the birthday of the parish and a BIG holiday/holy day.)
That Sunday morning, I got up and got in the shower. I was really proud of myself for getting up on time. I got ready and was still very pleased that I was being so punctual. Time management is very difficult for me (dyspraxia/executive dysfunction) and I was so pleased that I was on top of things. I looked at my e-mail one last time and then went to sit out front (fifteen minutes early!) to wait for them.
And wait for them. And wait for them. They were late. Then really late. I started wondering if I should walk to church (15 minute walk) but decided to give them a few more minutes so they wouldn’t show up to find me gone. When the time came that church was starting, I started crying and went inside.
I checked the answering machine and found out that they had called . . . when I was in the shower . . . and said they would be coming to get me an hour early. I was still in the shower when they showed up, found me not waiting for them, and left. I was so upset! How could I possibly be ready to go an HOUR earlier in the morning when I was only notified of that fact an HOUR AND TEN MINUTES earlier? How could anyone do that? Did they really not want to take me? Then why did THEY offer?
And I missed a very big day in my parish because of it!
So I sat down to my computer and then an e-mail came through that had apparently been delayed by some system along the way. It was them, saying that the choir director from the parish that was coming to visit and celebrate with us had just called them and asked them to come in an hour early to rehearse before liturgy.
Why couldn’t that choir director have contacted them earlier? Why the day of the service! It ruined my day. My week. Heck, I’m still upset about it and it’s been a year!
When I saw the couple again, I said, “I was really upset and disappointed that I couldn’t be at the parish nameday.”
Guess what they said?
If you guessed, “I’m sorry,” you’re wrong.
They said, “wow! it was a great time that you missed!” and went on to rave about the music, the food, how much fun everyone had.
And they always seemed puzzled after that why I would say “no thank you” when they offered me rides and why I would prefer to walk a mile to church instead of getting a nice, comfortable, sociable ride with them.
But after they ruined my Holy Day, I just couldn’t stand the thought of riding with them again. Plus I was too anxious that accepting a ride from them would mean I’d get abandoned again and miss more church.
And the real kicker is that I don’t think they ever understood what it was that they actually did to me. Maybe they talked themselves into believing I really didn’t want to go after all? I have no idea! But they never seemed to be sorry or indicate in any way that what they did was less than appropriate.
So now I’m afraid to accept rides with anyone or make any plans that depend on someone else keeping their word because for all I know, they really *didn’t* do anythign wrong and I’m so upset over nothing.
unstrangemind: For anyone to unilaterally change plans at the last minute is so inconsiderate. I think it would have been alright if they’d called and said, “Would it be okay if we came an hour earlier?” but to simply make that decision for you, without asking what you needed, was unfair. And they should also have told the choir director that they had a previous commitment to come and get you, and that they all needed to find a way for you to get to church. That’s all just common courtesy.
I’m so sorry that this happened to you. I wanted to cry when I read it. It’s so very rude what they did.
Thank you, Rachel. At the time, my partner told me I had no just cause to be angry and that they had done nothing wrong. I felt confused because if I had no just cause to be angry, why did I feel so upset? But so often my partner “interprets” the world for me so I accepted what he said and figured I just needed to work through my feelings.
Thank you for validating my thought that they had actually been rude. And, you know, knowing that it’s appropriate to feel angry about it just chased away a whole bushel basket of the anger I had about it. Funny that.
unstrangemind: I told your story to my NT husband and daughter at dinner tonight, and they had exactly the same response I did: the people should have asked what would work for you. So there!
I would suggest that the situation you described is both a murky, cultural trait and a sign of neurological differences.
Yes, the American tendency to say things you don’t mean to maintain social relationships is a pecularity of our culture.
However, as one immersed in this culture, your difficulty in recognizing this cultural tendency is a sign of neurological difference. There are social cues involved when people say these things that distinguish those who mean it and those who are simply saying it to maintain their social status quo. Missing those cues is the neurological aspect.
Which is not to justify the cultural phenomenon. I totally agree that “word of honor” is a much better trait, though it can lead to its own murky waters.
This may be a particularly white American thing. I once read a blog entry (titled White Privilege and Office Culture) by a Jamaican-American Muslim friend in which she described how she was assessed negatively at work for “being negative”, which meant such things as point-blank refusing to do something beyond the call of duty when she knew she couldn’t (because she wouldn’t have access to a car, for example). Apparently she was meant to say “oh yes, of course” and then try and offload the duty onto someone else or make excuses later, which is what a lot of her white female colleagues would do.
I’ve read that this is a source of distrust for white Americans among POC in America, which is something that came up in discussions about this topic among Muslims which I saw in a blog carnival last year. I don’t really know how true this is anywhere else.
The other day I saw a TV programme about children in the UK care system, and one boy featured was a 14-year-old who was in a children’s home, and was on heavily restricted contact with his mother because she had run away with him six years ago. He could see her a few times a year, supervised by social workers; on some occasions this had meant 20 minutes in a social service department’s foyer, and he had missed his mother’s wedding, and several other visits, because social services had nobody to take him to see her.
When, after one visit in which it was clear that his mother had turned her life around somewhat (and was apparently competently caring for a 3-year-old daughter), the social workers decided to increase his contact only partially, allowing him to see her unsupervised but only when they took him to see her, he flew into a rage and attacked the social worker’s car. Clearly he didn’t want to deal with his relationship to his mother being beholden to them any longer given that they could break their side of the agreement any time, but his reaction was depicted as the rage of a disturbed kid rather than someone who had been messed around a few times too many.
Indigo Jo, it’s so validating to hear that people in other minorities experience the same phenomenon. I’ve been told that I need to get myself involved with others who come from more straightforward cultures, because I just can’t keep track of the rules of the majority culture, and I’ve been at it for over five decades now. In addition to the rules making no sense to me, they keep changing over time. So many of the social niceties that I observed so astutely and put into play as a child and young adult have all but gone away. And nobody sent me the memo.
This is why it was so helpful for me, as an English person, to live in Canada for a few years in my twenties – things like this were spelt out to us ‘foreigners’. Being a foreigner can be very useful when you’re on the autistic spectrum, because people explain the things that normally go unexplained. But even with the explanations, I still found it confusing, because people were so friendly and open and chatty there that it seemed at first that everyone wanted to be friends with me! In England, people are generally more reserved, but I do get confused when people say ‘Keep in touch’, which is a common thing to say, because I don’t think most of them mean it, but maybe some do, and it’s hard to tell. I think the ones who mean it also make some effort to keep in touch too – but then equally people could be confused with how to read me and be not sure whether I want to keep in touch. The conclusion I’ve finally reached, though, is that, in general, the people who want to stay in touch with you do so.
capriwim, I hear what you’re saying about being a “foreigner.” When I lived in France, I felt pretty comfortable, because people were very proud of the “French way” of doing things and would take care to educate me. They just assumed that no one else did it their way and that I therefore needed to be told. I didn’t always agree with the “French way,” but I sure as hell appreciated knowing what is was!
Ohhh yes to the gift of being a foreigner. I am at a loss for the subtleties of (white/cis/straight/middle class) American culture, as well, Rachel, and continually hurt and frustrated by people who say deliberately misleading things out of some bizzare sense of “politeness.” However, living in Australia was wonderful, because as soon as I spoke they heard “not Australian” instead of “uses too many big words in a vain attempt for precision,” and I was suddenly granted extensive leeway to make mistakes without being blamed and instead educated. Unusual posture and body language was just a sign of foreigness, not disorder. It was wonderful. Even if they weren’t any better about this sort of social lie than Americans.
Ali, it’s so interesting that being a foreigner is the same gift in a predominantly English-speaking country as it is in a country that uses another language. So much of my experience of being helped and accepted in France had to do with second-language issues as well as cultural ones, so it’s great to know that the cultural ones make so much of a difference. I hope your emigration process goes well!
[...] Cohen-Rottenberg blogs at Journeys with Autism. Word of Honor appears here under the terms of this Creative Commons [...]
I still take people at their word
“We should hang out sometime.”
that phrase I just find confusing since it has no restrictions on place or time or whether it means I will meet you on the swings :shrug: